LT's Theories

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LT's Theories

Post by Sundex »

NOTE:I would rather not take credit for this work, since LT put in the effort to make what I am about to send out. All I am doing is taking the discussion to the Pastel Forums. Why?

There may be a person on these forums who wants to post an opinion that haven't done so already or can't do so at all on the Discord.



That is it. I remember when we originally discussed possibilities of the Basements being on different layers. LT has taken it into his own hands to overlay the maps in such a way that it could possibly confirm this. Before we list the similarities, let's set up a couple of rules:

  • The origin will be dictated by the position of the LAB PORTALS! Not the URDs
  • iSubmachine and Submachine version 1 will not be taken into account, as those games are not canonical to the series anymore
  • Submachine 1 Basement = Original Basement, 672 in Submachine Universe = New Basement, 840 in Submachine Universe = Semotus Basement, Red Basement in Submachine 10 (with cameo in Submachine 1 HD) = Infernal Basement, 529 in Submachine 4 & Submachine Universe = Basement Section, 947 in Submachine Universe = Gem Harvester,
Let's DO THIS!!!

  • The URDs from the Original Basement and the Infernal Basement share the same coordinate: (-1, 1)
  • All of the Lab portals share the origin point, (0, 0)
  • The machine in (2, -1) is shared in two maps: The New Basement and the Original Basement
  • In the Original Basement, you get a spoon from (2, -2) by listening to the radio. In the Infernal Basement, you place the spoon in that exact location to get a secret
  • Semotus Basement and Infernal Basement both share a switch in (0, 2)
If there is any you see that I missed, it only further boosts this theory to possible confirmation!
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Re: LT's Theories

Post by Sublevel 109 »

Thank you for posting this. :D
It went beyond factory walls...
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Re: LT's Theories

Post by Jatsko »

Sundex wrote:or can't do so at all on the Discord
may be a phrasing issue but that wouldn’t be referring to me, would it? :pppp

I’ll stream this topic two to three weeks from now; seems important enough to hash out. Will break out Illustrator and put all of the maps in a different layer (literally) to make toggling a lot easier.

stream link if y'all are interested, will remain on the channel afterwards
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Re: LT's Theories

Post by Sundex »

Apocrypha wrote:may be a phrasing issue but that wouldn’t be referring to me, would it? :pppp
It was mainly referring to you. However, there were people apart from you that I thought would want to see this: Sublevel, Groke, etc.
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Re: LT's Theories

Post by Jatsko »

Eh, I don't think I need a stream for this. I'm not in an optimal connection spot atm anyway and won't be for a few days.

So after talking to LT it should be noted that the reasoning for combining the URD locations and the XYZ locations the way they are is by

1) lining up URDS
2) lining up XYZs
3) bringing 1) and 2) together via the connection point of the bubble machine things in 672 and Sub1 basement that can be found in (1,0)

I don't really like assuming that they can be lined up like that to bridge the gap between two groups, as it's an arbitrary precondition. Well, not completely arbitrary, as I understand they're similar-looking machines, but I would want something a little more plausible.

Also worth pointing out in Sundex's list above that since lining the XYZs along their portals at a relative (0,0) is a precondition for putting the map together (a control variable of sorts) it shouldn't be listed in a separate observations section. Same with URDs being lined up since that was a similar precondition for putting the map together. So all the first three bulleted points - when you take into account the third is the similar-machine precondition that should be listed as (1,0), not (2,-1) since I thought we were using XYZ-relative coordinates, not URD - aren't valid observations. Bullet point 5 is also gone because it assumes the similar machine precondition.

That leaves us with (I'm using separate coordinate systems for now):

1) URD(2,-2): Sub1Base spoon found in = InfBase spoon used in (2,-2)

I'll take a look now at what else I can find, and I'll put down what I find to be relevant similarities. If I find a good reason for interlacing XYZs and URDs I'll let you know. And remember that all this assumes that these basement sections are layers of each other arranged in a specific way, so we're in essence backwards-evidencing.

More observations below:

2) URD (2,-1): Sub10Base KP connect = InfBase KP connect
3) URD (-1,0): Sub1Base valve turn = InfBase stone wheel turn
4) URD (-1,-1): Sub1Base + InfBase contain right-angle pipes facing Quadrant II

Here's my diagram (XYZ-URD separated): ... sp=sharing
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Re: LT's Theories

Post by LittleTornado »

Since Sundex took the liberty of naming this 'LT's Theories I'm going to make use of this.

[places on 'Generous Exposition' Hat]
A long long time ago (I can still re member how that music Shush)
I went and tried to make a combined map of various sections of the subnet. the results are lost to the annals of time and my SubWiki page. However, given a recent major restructuring in my life(in that I now have one), I have embarked upon this.

Long story short: I'm doing maps. I want feedback.
Here's one of the lighthouse and root. Bits I couldn't quite place are underneath.I'm still working out a few minor details mind, hence feedback(and thus being able to farm the blame out to you, er um I mean).
Bits I couldn't place are at the bottom. go wild(metaphorically)
Bits I couldn't place are at the bottom. go wild(metaphorically)
SubMapV2.jpg (184.08 KiB) Viewed 11517 times
Totally a human. Honest!
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Re: LT's Theories

Post by Jatsko »

Copied from Submachine Wiki

Properties of Karmic Portals
Theory history: Submitted 2017-07-27
---new transcript(64157162772017)

---subject(construction and properties of karmic portals)

---beginning record/write

"This thing on? Good. First, we need to get some disclaimers out of the way".

"Every point we bring up here is either an observable effect within the Submachine, or based on other theories. This is likely to be quite standard for these. This being said, we can begin."

"Presuming that the Teleporter located in the Angel Ruins is a layer-shift device, then we can safely assume that it is in the nature of blue karmic portals to shift the user through layers, as well as through space".

"This doesn't take account the portals in the North Gardens though. While the structure could have been created using multi-layer building methods, we cannot ensure that it was. In addition, various other factors do not comply, such as if the user was on layer 1 when they used the final portal, or the monitors persisting through the relevant layer change".

"There is some explanation for this. For one, shifting layer-wise and location-wise could be optional properties, altered by various factors.

"Factors such as?"

"We'll get to that. Now if they do shift you layer wise, then it may be merely a unique coincidence that all the possible layer-shifting candidates also shift you location-wise as well, implying that layer-shifting is inherent unless actively inhibited, which throws a lot of interesting questions into the air. Next step, coloration, and size of portals. What do we know so far?"

"That green portals primarily shift location-wise only, with a few exceptions, such as that one on IIIIOIII in the Temple. Couple this with that fact that a portal disrupts if the damaged surrounding matter is removed and we can presume that portals are somehow Anchored to their relevant surfaces"

"Valid point, though you're drifting off topic"

"Some unusual portals do exist besides the known green and blue. There is the large white portal in the temple, the massive green one on what remains of Liz's ship at the Northern Garden, the one in the Corrupted Basement that Jatsko proved was red, and a few ones that appear to be purple found in unusual places in the subnet, though only from one side. Care to elaborate on this? "

"I do propose that Size and Colour are arbitrary values defined at the creation of the portal. The specific design also varies, though that is a unique case to be discussed at a later date. Due to the correlation between what I call Grounding material(the matter on which a karmic portal is formed), and resultant property. All portals that can or do link directly, ignoring layers, are located on, or in relative proximity to 4th dynasty Grounding Material, such as the Temple and Northern Gardens. Additionally, not all 4th Dynasty grounding matter of portals are green, further proving that color is controlled by a factor separate from Grounding Matter. While the ones on the Ship at the Docks are in proximity to what is likely 4th dynasty structure there is no evidence that the Angel Ruins are on a different layer. Same goes for the one leading to the Northern Garden. There are a few exceptions, mostly found in obscure places in the Subnet. The PTL portal leads to what appears to be a past or future variant on the Cake room- and the one to Dimesnion X may lead to two insersecting time feilds(though we can discuss this later), slightly implying that such portals can interfere with time, and the one in the quiet rooms appears to have moved from its binding stand to a location some distance away in space and other, currently indescribable, measures."

"You said that Size and Colour were values created at the start. What changes those values?".

“While it is not exactly known what dictates size or color, I propose that color dictates destination, and size dictates distance. Originally I concluded that color was a factor of the energy used, but there is no red, white, or purple energy- to our limited knowledge”.

“so, what was the next theory?”.

“That color is defined by the creator. Say, all of Mur’s are blue, Liz’s could be green(we know that one of them explored the temple at some point. More this in a bit). However, in some cases, the target colors don’t match. Thus, I just conclude that the only other known factors are destination and Grounding Matter. Since other 4th dynasty Grounding Matter portals aren’t green, it likely means destination though why only knot portals are green is unknown”.

“Considering this it is likely that there is another unknown factor. The only evidence we have is what we can observe. Too many darn unknowns. How is distance a factor?”.

“Considering we have only two test cases it’s hard to prove. Strangely, one I’d the portal leading to the temple, the other being the one that leaves it. The white temple portal was quite large, implying there’s a great distance between the Angel Ruins and Temple. The portal on Liz’s ship was also massive, implying long distance, but green, implying the Knot as the target”.

“But that’s Knot where it leads, is it?”.

“Har, Har. No. Remember that conversation between Mur and Liz?”

Liz: You can create Karmic Portals while inside such a portal?

Mur: Yes.

Liz: And what happens when you do?

Mur: You change direction.

Liz: Of what?

Mur: Of everything.
“Presuming that Mur did that, naturally it would mess with the end point of the portal. In fact, we’ve even seen something like this before”.


“The loop”.

"But naturally, where else"
“You should arrive at the lab…

…or somewhere nearby”
“With the Loop and Lab, it dumped the user to the roof. With this, it dumped the user three screens up, and one to the left, four layers down. That’s some serious miss, no”.

“Presuming the loop exit works on the same principles. So, what of the red portal, or the purple ones?”.

“The purple ones all use similar grounding matter, so perhaps it is not just the destination but the substance that dictates color. The red makes little sense, perhaps it has something to do with using The Corrupted Basement as grounding matter, we still don’t know who drew that one, or when”.

“Time travel has been an issue in the Subnet-wait. By Who? Explain”

“In the Subnet, you are never alone. There are hundreds of Karmic portals scattered all over. Even with the exploration team teleporters and the 32 years alone in the Net, it seems nigh impossible that Mur could have drawn every last one. The Karmic stabilizer shows that artificial aids in portal reconstruction. are not an impossibility. There may be others using more advanced equipment to create portals lightweight. In addition, a data transmission from Mat revealed sketches of an infuser of some kind, though its exact purpose is unclear”.

“So, you think others drew some portals with unknown aids? Does this explain the colors?”

“Possibly, and no. The device we have witnessed so far relies on Blue Karmic Water as a fuel source. Since green portals don’t seem to interfere with grounding matter, bar one, using Green Karmic Water in a similar fashion seems pointless. And furthermore, there are no known sources of white, purple or red waters”.

“What of that other transmission, with what Jatsko dubbed the ‘Karmic Pen’?”

“I deem it not a mere quill. All throughout the Knot are Karmic devices, using blue and green karmic water. While they seem biological in nature they are far too convenient in function. I feel that the plant details merely are Décor, to give the mechanical components some visual appeal. The number of decorative glyphs spread throughout that temple, on the walls, on the sarcophagi- the many statues- and other details besides, all imply a group who were very style oriented. I feel that the device shown is Karmic Welder, defining paths for green Karmic water for practical use. There’s no way that stuff is all natural”.

“And you think that this device can define the flow paths of karmic water? Then do you propose Jatsko is wrong?”.

“While I can neither prove nor disprove his concept that device creates green karma portals as of right now I am in agreement with him. I do feel that it can create green portals”.

“We’re off topic… Explain the white portal”

“I think the white portal is a creation of the Subnet itself. We reverse-engineered it’s maintenance teleporters, it reverse-engineered Murtaugh's Karmic portals. Human error isn’t always a failure. Evolution is merely one mistake after another, many happy accidents. We learned from the net and it learned from us. Hence why it feeds off the natural energy springs there, the light from layer eight, caused by motion as atoms are moved. However, the design mimics that of the temple itself, so unless the net took ideas of form as well as function, then perhaps it was wrought by other means”.

“So in one session, we expanded on a theoretical device, made bold, currently unprovable statements about Karmic portal nature, possibly proved that Mur has Meta-Portaled twice to date, and many other things besides- all with no founding evidence.”

“But of course, all our theories are, we just have to argue them”.

---ending transcript

#|I’m fairly sure this has a few loose ends. Perhaps a discussion of some kind should be raised, Via any suitable medium requested.

#|if a summary is needed, that can also be provided.
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