Submachine 6: the Edge

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Rooster5man
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Re: Submachine 6: the Edge

Post by Rooster5man »

I'll answer the rest sometime tomorrow, but for now:
That my point, if Mur used the portal as in it only transported him and not the whole Lighthouse, and Liz said he could not return, how could he be in Isolation for FIVE MONTHS if he could not return to the Lighthouse.
No, no, he was in isolation as in he (besides Einstein) was the only inhabitant of the Lighthouse. That was his isolation.
The Others buried the Lighthouse because it of New Karma Portal he built. But it was no Threat until Murtaugh TURN IT ON.
The others buried Mur regardless of the Lighthouse Portal existing - His Karma powers damaged the SubNet, and they felt it was necessary to bury him to stop him, I suppose.
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Re: Submachine 6: the Edge

Post by WorldisQuiet5256 »

Rooster5man wrote:I'll answer the rest sometime tomorrow, but for now:
That my point, if Mur used the portal as in it only transported him and not the whole Lighthouse, and Liz said he could not return, how could he be in Isolation for FIVE MONTHS if he could not return to the Lighthouse.
No, no, he was in isolation as in he (besides Einstein) was the only inhabitant of the Lighthouse. That was his isolation.
The Others buried the Lighthouse because it of New Karma Portal he built. But it was no Threat until Murtaugh TURN IT ON.
The others buried Mur regardless of the Lighthouse Portal existing - His Karma powers damaged the SubNet, and they felt it was necessary to bury him to stop him, I suppose.

Okay that part I admit there I didn't understand Isolation, but the Lighthouse still had to have been faded from the Core into the Outer Rim. Becuase if the Lighthouse was in the Core, why did Mur not have th Player go strait to the Defense System if it was right next to the Player.
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Re: Submachine 6: the Edge

Post by Anteroinen »

Okay that part I admit there I didn't understand Isolation, but the Lighthouse still had to have been faded from the Core into the Outer Rim. Becuase if the Lighthouse was in the Core, why did Mur not have th Player go strait to the Defense System if it was right next to the Player.
The Player left the lighthouse, without ever meeting Murtaugh. He wouldn't have known to tell player to do anything. There wasn't any particular method of contacting him either. That's leaving aside the question of the location of the edge.
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Re: Submachine 6: the Edge

Post by WorldisQuiet5256 »

Yes but as far as we know it was Mur who created the Player, there were more before him in Sub 6. The Lab Mission was a Job application. In the end of the Loop there was a Note left for his Victoms.
so here it is.
I did draw a portal in here, however it's not stable. I'm going to use it, even though I can't tell where I'll end up.
Feel free to use this door whenever you like, just remember that the number of places it can take you to is beyond wildest imagination.
Or I'm just trying to keep you from exiting the lighthouse.
Either way - decide for yourself if you're going to use it or not.


m
That Note from Mur directly speaks to the Player. He would not type that if he did not expect someone to do it.
I figure the Submachine Game in the Ligthouse was a Spawn Point for Mur's Victoms, if he had that spawn point, then he could just have them go strait to them.

If anyone has a better Idea as to where the other Victoms like the Player then I'm open to suggestions.
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Re: Submachine 6: the Edge

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Yes but as far as we know it was Mur who created the Player, there were more before him in Sub 6. The Lab Mission was a Job application
How do you define "create"? Create in the sense of:

a) Sculpted the Player to go on this mission for him willingly

or

b) Somehow actually made the Player?

Because A is the answer as far as I'm aware, B is a skeptical Theory.
That Note from Mur directly speaks to the Player. He would not type that if he did not expect someone to do it.
You said it yourself - He obviously left a trail of notes in the hopes that someone would actually get that far in his Mission for them.

If you want to be technical, most Notes speak to the Player, whether as a warning or a conversational-backstory (i.e. Sub7, Liz.)
I figure the Submachine Game in the Ligthouse was a Spawn Point for Mur's Victoms, if he had that spawn point, then he could just have them go strait to them
Mateusz already said Submachine is real, so anything along the lines of "We played Submachine in the real world and ended up in this video game" is already Debunked. So would you like to elaborate on how the arcade is a "spawn point"?
Becuase if the Lighthouse was in the Core, why did Mur not have th Player go strait to the Defense System if it was right next to the Player.
There wasn't any other way out of the Lighthouse and, as Ant said, there was no instruction to turn off the DefSys. Again, this leads back to Mateusz's quote of "Why didn't the eagles fly the One Ring to Mount Doom?" Basically to develop a Plot, otherwise the Submachine series could have skipped from The Lighthouse to The Edge. And back to what Ant was saying, if the DefSys are on, then obviously, those inside the Core can't leave without the DefSys being turned off from the Edge, thus making it necessary to go through The Loop, The Lab and The Root.

Now to yesterday's discussion:
If Parts of the Winter Palace could fade out to the Unknown, who to say the Lighthouse couldn't.
Aside from the Lighthouse and their digouts being in the SubNet (since, if it's thought that you can't come back from the Outer Rim, then the Lighthouse and the digouts wouldn't be part of SNEE), I'll answer that with a quote from Mateusz, but first something I found interesting:
he also could have been transported in time (remember ending of sub2? it says: did I travel too far, or too early). too early could mean that the lighthouse teleports not only to the outer rim but also 32 years into the past. After 32 years of searching murtaugh is finally ready to return to the core. And in the core it's one day before einstein disappears.
Although hypothetical, if the Lighthouse Portal could transport to the Outer Rim while the Lighthouse was in the Outer Rim...what's the point?

Now here's what I wanted to show you:
lighthouse is inside the core. I thought that was clear.
I've got two landmines for you to blow you away. I'm curious how nobody thought of:

1. the first submachine was built around 1900, but that's not the beginning of the submachine. that's just the beginning of the outer rim (the subnet);

2. subnet experience + karma portals. all I'm saying. just imagine.
Mateusz confirmed that much, that must mean it's still in The Core. I don't see why he wouldn't tell us that it's in the Core when it's really in the Outer Rim.
Mur shared that Similar Desertion as the Outer Rim when he was Buried FOR THE SAME REASON, the DEATHS. Who say they Both aren't Schemers.
Who else are you referring to, Liz? Liz being "evil" is actually a Theory of Marbles's, but what, from what you quoted, leads to the conclusion Liz did that? Unless I misunderstood.
That Person might have told the Others and Liz of Murs Plan if he KNEW what was Happening.
And he probably didn't, otherwise Liz would've warned Layer 5 of Mur's potential attack when the man told her. Regardless, that note really is puzzling - about who it could be - but it could also be the same man who "fell off the Edge."
Why is Liz Apologizing for not getting to the Player first if she didn't have the Ability to do so. If she couldn't get to him she would have no Reason to Apologies because she couldn't do anything in the FIRST PLACE. Showing the Lighthouse after it was buried was still in the Core for awhile But THEN when Mur Started his Plans to Invade the Core the Lighthouse FADED INTO the Outer Rim
Or it could simply mean it was out of her power to find us and warn us that Mur's using us, and that she was busy. Look, I understand - It's a really cool idea that the Lighthouse faded into the Outer Rim after being buried, but there's little to no evidence supporting it, just like with most other Theories.
How is it not important to PROTECT the Core if by saving the Player AND the Others before the Player BEFORE they disable the Defense System?
I think you misunderstood me, and I'll say what I was trying to say - It's more important to protect the Core than save the Player in Liz's eyes, possibly. The moment she leaves the Core, anything could happen - For all she knows, the Core might rip apart when she's gone.
But he still needed a Home Base for part of that 32 Years, say like A LIGHTHOUSE! If the Lighthouse was in the Outer Rim, it would provide for a suitable Home Base to Sleep in after a Day of Exploring.
Liz's Room is the only part (besides the Digouts) where Mur could've camped out then. If he went back to the Lighthouse, shouldn't there be a note explaining it? And if the Lighthouse isn't still buried, explain the dirt mound from Sub5. The Wiki even says:
In the Lighthouse can be found a pile of dirt that has flown from above closing the rest of the lighthouse.
If The Lighthouse isn't buried and went to the Outer Rim, there would be no dirt mound.
Is the Outer Rim MORE than just an Area but its who we pass the Torch too. Maybe the People hearing the great fear that they are less better than something else; they went into denial and deserted the Outer Rim in response to that fear and the Outer Rim left them alone until Mur came and IT sees the same problem that It and Mur shared. All of what the Mutation, Mur Invasion of the Core, Revenge toward the Others, IT'S THE TORCH BEING PASS. The Inevitable of what the Computer said about the "Torch Passing" is happening.
I don't quite understand this post. Why would the Outer Rim "pass the torch"? And to the humans? So you're basically saying the Computer caused the mutations (as is a general thought) in the Outer Rim so the Humans would leave the Outer Rim alone, but, really, the Computer was telling the humans "Your move," as in it's a giant game of Chess? Interesting thought if I understood correctly, but what would this mean? What effect would this have on the plot?
My Last Post was Messy due to other problems I was struggling with at the Time, it was distracting Me.
That's fine. If you have time now, you can elaborate or edit however you like and notify me of the changes.
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Re: Submachine 6: the Edge

Post by WorldisQuiet5256 »

lighthouse is inside the core. I thought that was clear.
I've got two landmines for you to blow you away. I'm curious how nobody thought of:

1. the first submachine was built around 1900, but that's not the beginning of the submachine. that's just the beginning of the outer rim (the subnet);

2. subnet experience + karma portals. all I'm saying. just imagine.
Yes the Lighthouse started out in the Core, but then after it was buried. it faded into the Outer Rim. Look CLOSER to that Post, Materusz just said the Lighthouse is inside the Core, he doesn't say it still inside the Core, I could say "My house is in Cassopolis" But if I were to say it in a Decisions where Time as far as we know is not like on Earth. I might say "My house is in Cassopolis" but if I said that a minute ago then it is suddenly in New York. We can't trust that post as a DEFINITE answer of whether or not the Lighthouse is in the Core at the Present or what you can call the Present in the Submachine.

We can't completely relied on Materusz, I just base my theories on the Game itself.
Who else are you referring to, Liz? Liz being "evil" is actually a Theory of Marbles's, but what, from what you quoted, leads to the conclusion Liz did that? Unless I misunderstood.
No I'm Referring to the Outer Rim Itself. Liz is one of the Good People.
I think you misunderstood me, and I'll say what I was trying to say - It's more important to protect the Core than save the Player in Liz's eyes, possibly. The moment she leaves the Core, anything could happen - For all she knows, the Core might rip apart when she's gone.
No, no, no, Look at the Original Function the Player Served. He was to turn off the Defenses System. The Arcade Game was created by Mur to reconstruct Stability for anyone who was already in the Submachine but got that Amnesia or whatever destabilize their Minds. Liz didn't have to save the Player, but if she KNEW what Mur had a plan to Invade the Core, as she clearly stated in her Welcome Note from Sub 7, she would have tried to still get in the Lighthouse while it was in the Core to stop Mur plans before he can do anymore damage while the Lighthouse for that period of time it was still in the Core.
Liz's Room is the only part (besides the Digouts) where Mur could've camped out then. If he went back to the Lighthouse, shouldn't there be a note explaining it? And if the Lighthouse isn't still buried, explain the dirt mound from Sub5. The Wiki even says:
He removed unnecessary Notes that would not get the Player to trust him.
When did Liz ever live in the Lighthouse?
If The Lighthouse isn't buried and went to the Outer Rim, there would be no dirt mound.
I mean like this:

Image

Its not flying, I just mean the dirt mound or ground slightly elevated, if it was in the core in Sub 7 we would have seen it. Like the image above shows. But sinces we didn't, its in the Outer Rim.
I don't quite understand this post. Why would the Outer Rim "pass the torch"? And to the humans? So you're basically saying the Computer caused the mutations (as is a general thought) in the Outer Rim so the Humans would leave the Outer Rim alone, but, really, the Computer was telling the humans "Your move," as in it's a giant game of Chess? Interesting thought if I understood correctly, but what would this mean? What effect would this have on the plot?
No I Mean the Outer Rim is in some way Alive. Kind of how in the Movie, The Matrix. The Matrix is more than just a Computer Generated World, it was an A.I. System. It didn't respond too well when Humans began to Unplug. I'm not saying the Outer Rim is an A.I., just that in some way it Alive. When it first existed into reality it was not alive, but it grew into something more with the increase amounts of Mutation. But before the Computer answer the question, It was alive, and the People knew it. When the Computer was built by Humans to answer the questions they have. The Computer said the Humans were not the most intelligent beings, the Outer Rim was. The Torch was to be pass from Humans to the Outer Rim. But Human being Human went into Denial of that Truth and rejected the Outer Rim. The Outer Rim is still trying to get that torch. Its Working with Murtaugh to get that Torch.
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Re: Submachine 6: the Edge

Post by Rooster5man »

Yes the Lighthouse started out in the Core, but then after it was buried. it faded into the Outer Rim. Look CLOSER to that Post, Materusz just said the Lighthouse is inside the Core, he doesn't say it still inside the Core, I could say "My house is in Cassopolis" But if I were to say it in a Decisions where Time as far as we know is not like on Earth. I might say "My house is in Cassopolis" but if I said that a minute ago then it is suddenly in New York. We can't trust that post as a DEFINITE answer of whether or not the Lighthouse is in the Core at the Present or what you can call the Present in the Submachine.

We can't completely relied on Materusz, I just base my theories on the Game itself.
Basing your Theories on ideas already clearly debunked by the creator of the Series is not a very good idea.

I won't press the subject further, but Mateusz clearly says "The lighthouse is in the Core," not was, meaning "in present time."
No I'm Referring to the Outer Rim Itself. Liz is one of the Good People.
So the Outer Rim is a living thing/actual person perhaps? Okay...I can't confirm nor Debunk that because I don't even know how to.
The Arcade Game was created by Mur to reconstruct Stability for anyone who was already in the Submachine but got that Amnesia or whatever destabilize their Minds
That's Theory, not proven. I can't confirm nor Debunk that either.
Liz didn't have to save the Player, but if she KNEW what Mur had a plan to Invade the Core, as she clearly stated in her Welcome Note from Sub 7, she would have tried to still get in the Lighthouse while it was in the Core to stop Mur plans before he can do anymore damage while the Lighthouse for that period of time it was still in the Core
We don't even know how Liz found out we (The Player) would be coming in the first place. I had the thought she realized the DefSys was shut down, and thought that a follower of Mur may have done so, although not on purpose (otherwise she wouldn't have been so nice.) To say she knew his plan all along is to say that she willingly didn't tell the people of Layer 5 until it was too late (or at the very last second), and I don't see why she would wait until the last second to warn them.

Or perhaps she knew of a plan of Mur's, but didn't know he could carry it out - I'll give you that.
He removed unnecessary Notes that would not get the Player to trust him.
You mean that would get the Player to trust him, because if he left the note explaining he came back from the Outer Rim and that he plans to invade the Core by shutting off the DefSys...Why would we trust him?
When did Liz ever live in the Lighthouse?
"Liz's Room" is the name given to the room in the Lighthouse Sewers where we found the "Letter to Liz" explaining Mur's departure.
Its not flying, I just mean the dirt mound or ground slightly elevated, if it was in the core in Sub 7 we would have seen it. Like the image above shows. But sinces we didn't, its in the Outer Rim.
And you're assuming we saw everything in The Core. You don't know that for sure. I still don't understand how, if the Lighthouse was in the Outer Rim, it would still be buried.
No I Mean the Outer Rim is in some way Alive. Kind of how in the Movie, The Matrix. The Matrix is more than just a Computer Generated World, it was an A.I. System. It didn't respond too well when Humans began to Unplug. I'm not saying the Outer Rim is an A.I., just that in some way it Alive. When it first existed into reality it was not alive, but it grew into something more with the increase amounts of Mutation. But before the Computer answer the question, It was alive, and the People knew it. When the Computer was built by Humans to answer the questions they have. The Computer said the Humans were not the most intelligent beings, the Outer Rim was. The Torch was to be pass from Humans to the Outer Rim. But Human being Human went into Denial of that Truth and rejected the Outer Rim. The Outer Rim is still trying to get that torch. Its Working with Murtaugh to get that Torch.
Huh, very interesting...After all, Mateusz has some influence by The Matrix. However, why would Mur want to work with the Outer Rim? What would he get out of it? Revenge on the ones who buried him, as in "The Enemy of my Enemy is my friend"?
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Re: Submachine 6: the Edge

Post by WorldisQuiet5256 »

However, why would Mur want to work with the Outer Rim? What would he get out of it? Revenge on the ones who buried him, as in "The Enemy of my Enemy is my friend"?
Here's Why:
Once the great scheme of things was clearly visible through the layers of seven main dimensions.
Right now due to corossion, collapse and spontaneous growth of the outer rim the plan is almost unrecognizable.
We humans deserted the outer rim, and the outer rim responded with deserting us.
Nothing but decay ensues.

Quote:
It's no wonder they wanted to bury this whole lighthouse with him still inside.
The collapse death toll was growing exponentionally.

Quote:
No one knows what types of mutations of submachines grew out there.


Mur shared that Similar Desertion as the Outer Rim when he was Buried FOR THE SAME REASON, the DEATHS. Who say they Both aren't Schemers.
Mur gets: to live after when things run their course.
Outer Rim gets: The Torch it was Denied.
I had the thought she realized the DefSys was shut down, and thought that a follower of Mur may have done so, although not on purpose (otherwise she wouldn't have been so nice.)
If the player was one of Mur's Followers, then why did we have to go through his mind manipulation Plans, Our Movement from Submachine 1- Submachine 4 was all a mental way of getting the Player to Trust Mur without it even him realizing he was being used.
And you're assuming we saw everything in The Core. You don't know that for sure. I still don't understand how, if the Lighthouse was in the Outer Rim, it would still be buried.
There was no part of the Core that was restricted to us in Sub 7.
And you're assuming we saw everything in The Core. You don't know that for sure. I still don't understand how, if the Lighthouse was in the Outer Rim, it would still be buried.
Yes the Lighthouse was buried then it faded into the Outer Rim, Ground and all. Why do you think parts of the Winter Palace Ground is missing.
Basing your Theories on ideas already clearly debunked by the creator of the Series is not a very good idea.

I won't press the subject further, but Mateusz clearly says "The lighthouse is in the Core," not was, meaning "in present time."
I just say this then, Materusz is HUMAN, everybody on the Earth is a SCHEMER, we all have Plans. Do you yourself not have Plans for tomorrow about how you plan to spend the day.
The Games are the only thing we can work with. They are the only ACTUAL Evident we can Relies on. Materusz Post are only circumstantial Evident.
Everything has function in some master movement that makes the Universe spin, even the smallest think has a function or a Reason for being there.

Humans have more than one Plan. Materusz is Human, Humans have a tendency to Scheme when they have people in their grasp.
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Re: Submachine 6: the Edge

Post by The Abacus »

I just say this then, Materusz is HUMAN, everybody on the Earth is a SCHEMER, we all have Plans. Do you yourself not have Plans for tomorrow about how you plan to spend the day.
The Games are the only thing we can work with. They are the only ACTUAL Evident we can Relies on. Materusz Post are only circumstantial Evident.
Everything has function in some master movement that makes the Universe spin, even the smallest think has a function or a Reason for being there.

Humans have more than one Plan. Materusz is Human, Humans have a tendency to Scheme when they have people in their grasp.
All humans make mistakes, but Mateusz is very careful to what he reveals. Also he would have removed that or corrected us if he changed his mind.
The Torch it was Denied.
That torch was metaphorical and how would Mur give it to the outer rim in the first place? Isn't the torch recognition of the fact that humans are not the most advanced sentience known?
Yes the Lighthouse was buried then it faded into the Outer Rim, Ground and all. Why do you think parts of the Winter Palace Ground is missing.
Either:
A) Mur creating Karma portals and destabilizing the area
B) The collapse (it was mentioned in the sub9 theories thread on the old forum)
C) Both A and B
He removed unnecessary Notes that would not get the Player to trust him.
Wait, let us take a step back.
How can we be sure that Mur knew of the players existence before sub4? The trail of notes may have been left for anyone who was trying to follow him or anyone who simply there.
Remember the note in sub4 about scientists first meeting Mur and he introduces them to many things including LEAVING NOTES BEHIND.
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Re: Submachine 6: the Edge

Post by Rooster5man »

How can we be sure that Mur knew of the players existence before sub4? The trail of notes may have been left for anyone who was trying to follow him or anyone who simply there.
Remember the note in sub4 about scientists first meeting Mur and he introduces them to many things including LEAVING NOTES BEHIND.
That's another thing - Of course, while he can simply go back to the Lighthouse (if he did) and remove the notes that may have explained too much of his plan, why would he leave them at all? Of course, we're not the first "The Player," and we probably won't be the last, but, with Mur knowing that he'll have someone to (hopefully) shut off the DefSys for him, why make the note revealing everything?
Mur gets: to live after when things run their course.
Outer Rim gets: The Torch it was Denied.
Then why is he going after the people on Layer 5 at all? What's the point of him going to Layer 5 to get revenge, when he can exact his revenge by teaming up with the Outer Rim?
If the player was one of Mur's Followers, then why did we have to go through his mind manipulation Plans, Our Movement from Submachine 1- Submachine 4 was all a mental way of getting the Player to Trust Mur without it even him realizing he was being used.
That's just the way things went - Mur needed a pawn to shut off the DefSys, then kill off the pawn because he had no use for us anymore. That's exactly why our minds were manipulated in the first place, like you said - to earn his trust.
There was no part of the Core that was restricted to us in Sub 7.
Really? What about the rest of Liz's ship? Mateusz surely didn't show us everything there is to see in the Core, the Core can take up much more space for all we know.
Yes the Lighthouse was buried then it faded into the Outer Rim, Ground and all. Why do you think parts of the Winter Palace Ground is missing.
Yes, parts of the ground are missing, not entire structures (i.e. The Lighthouse) and the dirt buried on top of them. Parts, like the floating island you showed previously.
I just say this then, Materusz is HUMAN, everybody on the Earth is a SCHEMER, we all have Plans. Do you yourself not have Plans for tomorrow about how you plan to spend the day.
The Games are the only thing we can work with. They are the only ACTUAL Evident we can Relies on. Materusz Post are only circumstantial Evident.
Everything has function in some master movement that makes the Universe spin, even the smallest think has a function or a Reason for being there.

Humans have more than one Plan. Materusz is Human, Humans have a tendency to Scheme when they have people in their grasp.
So his "scheme" is to say things and make us believe them when they're absolutely false? What would he get out of that? He wants to help us along in our Theory Creation (look at SNEE as an example), not lead us in the wrong direction (at least not 100% of the time.)
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