WRONG game tradition that I can't understand...

[Sublevel 113]

Poor poor Spark machine puzzle...


Ok.

You can read it as new complaint from your dear friend Subby (you can find the rest of them on this forum somewhere, lol. Especially right before and after game releases), but I just can't keep silence.

I won't repeat my long speeches about last games in series, author's time, respects, and other stuff.




well...

Gemine, WorldIsQuiet, and those who was involved in that...

Do you have ANY sane reason why did you ask and use hints in first hours after release?

any?

any?

any?..


I just want to know why people do such things.

I can't understand.

[Paranormal]

So, you're asking why people want to use hints within the day of release?

[Isobel The Sorceress]

o_O

I can't understand why this would be a problem to you.
You don't have to ask for help if you don't want to or don't need to.
Let others ask if they want to or need to.

The game is a social thing. People want to talk about it. I personally think it is more fun to try to solve it together.

Anyway, how long are you supposed to wait before asking for hints is allowed?
5 hours?
24 hours?
Who even decides that?

[Jatsko]

For me it was the combination of a long day and being stuck for long periods of time that just made me do it. I went in thinking that I would try to go without hints as long as possible, but after hours of getting nothing done I had to get a hint.

I was recording in 20 minute chunks, and I ended up deleting whole recording chunks because NOTHING got done. I cut a 6.5 hour play time into 1.5 hours of actual gameplay.

Also, since I'm admin on the Wiki, I wanted to make sure I was around so the initial rush didn't make it go to shit. So I had a couple of time constraints as it is.

I would have LOVED to take as much time as I needed for Sub10, but I had other things to keep in mind :/

[Sublevel 113]

The game is a social thing. People want to talk about it. I personally think it is more fun to try to solve it together.

and that's tradition.

and that's why I want to know. nothing more.

People release the game, and people gather together, community lives. People write their progress, their expressions. That's all good!
but when hints come...

People, game also has different part. different than story that gathers people into communities...

It's PUZZLE game.

It's made for us. For each individual people.
It takes years to be made. It takes hours of author's time to be performed to life.
Why does it has puzzles if I want to finish the game as possible as I can?
Did you ever have feeling when you finally solve the problem by yourself? Where's your inner virtue?

That puzzle from CF4.
What happened here and on different forums...
That puzzle, and how people killed it... that case became model for me.

For me, that puzzle is only think that makes CF4 good game. (Not joking, because I still think last part of CF is less good than previous)
Single barrier between you and finishing the story. Spark of intelligence. True model of puzzle.

and it is ruined into ashes.


-----


I very want to know your individual thought about this question, guys. That's why I restarted this theme.
I see it already became splinter in ass, but I really want to understand.

How do you see these games?

Does this tradition is right?

I was recording in 20 minute chunks, and I ended up deleting whole recording chunks because NOTHING got done. I cut a 6.5 hour play time into 1.5 hours of actual gameplay.

Also, since I'm admin on the Wiki, I wanted to make sure I was around so the initial rush didn't make it go to shit. So I had a couple of time constraints as it is.

I would have LOVED to take as much time as I needed for Sub10, but I had other things to keep in mind :/

That's what I thought.

that's sane reason.
thx

So, you're asking why people want to use hints within the day of release?

it's not question of known specific boundaries.

But few hours after release...

[Paranormal]

Did you ever have feeling when you finally solve the problem by yourself?

Did your ever have the feeling when you're stuck, can't move forward and feel utterly helpless because a puzzle has you in such a knot. You HAVE to ask for help, or a slight nudge to get you over that hill or through that valley?

Lemme twist that around, and ask that.

[RuloCore]

yeah idk some people have an adult life and can't even spend 3 consecutive days playing a game sorry dear

[Anonymous1]

The game is a social thing. People want to talk about it. I personally think it is more fun to try to solve it together.

This. You said it yourself Sublevel.

People release the game, and people gather together, community lives. People write their progress, their expressions.

People write their progress and leave hints and notes for those behind along the way. Its how the community works, how its always worked. Because as Isobel pointed out, we work together, help each other out.

The Submachine Wiki isn't a one man project. Its an eight year long project that has had 164 members contribute to it. Its a project that we this community contribute to. I'm one of the founding fathers, cornerstones of that project. Hell I'll take it a step further and say that I'm one of the founding fathers and cornerstones of this community.

Submachine is a project, its a game, created by Mateusz Skutnik but guess what else, its something we the community have contributed to. Sure, he could have created Submachine Universe. But I think this community's contributions to the series, in the way of theories added that special and unique flavor.

My point is, we contribute ideas, discussions, hints. We the community do this. We do it because its what helps the community grow. Those new users who joined and needed help. They got help. Several of us pitched in and gave them hints.

Now they could return. They have a reason to, because we helped them out. If we hadn't, they have no reason to return. My point right there is, by making contributions, you are helping others out, and helping others out is key to making something last.

We wouldn't be standing after ten years if we didn't help each other out. If you don't like that we give out hints to each other, that's fine, that's your opinion, you have a right to it, but its not going to stop. We would never make a rule to forbid hints from being said in topics pertaining to new game releases. That's silly.

Why did I ask for help and give help? Because I felt the need to. I ask questions that may be asked by someone else, and someone answers my question and that someone else sees the answer. I give hints out so others, see the hint. Its continuity dude.

I see your comments in your posting history about needing help with the Cube Escape series. I have yet to come across comments regarding needing help with Submachine, but I'm willing to bet you needed help with Submachine 10 as well and I'm betting further you read the hints that were provided.

[Sublevel 113]

Then Puzzle games are dead.

That's very very very sad.
гг

Yes, I cried when I got stuck in Cube Escape and DMT, of course I wanted help, but I never read any hint (except one secret achievement in DMT because I lost two damn weeks or so trying to find it).
You never feel what I felt when I solved all problems by myself.
my tradition: puzzle games are created for solving them by yourself. Not for turning the game into the awesome movie with awesome plot that you watch together with community.


But thanks for explaining your reason too, Gem.
Even if completely disagree with it.

[Paranormal]

Then Puzzle games are dead.

So, by that logic they were dead in the early to mid-1990's? People had trouble with the video game, Myst, in 1993-1994 and asked for help and yet, despite that... it spawned five games and became a really popular series! Myst set world records back when it was released, and Myst can easily be considered the "Submachine" of the 1990's when the internet was nothing near what it is, today!